Punk Rock Canon #9: Bad Religion’s Suffer vs. Stranger Than Fiction

Welcome to the Punk Rock Canon, a monthly feature on Mai Tai Happy Hour where Hambone, a guest host and I sit down and argue over whether a particular punk rock album should be inducted into the pantheon of rock and roll. Sometimes we discuss one album and occasionally we pit two albums by one band against each other. Regardless, the final choice is yours. Everyone can vote for which album goes into the Punk Rock Canon by visiting the survey on my Facebook page. It typically runs for one week and is open to everyone. 

This month we’re doing a versus episode featuring two albums from my favorite band, Bad Religion — Suffer and Stranger Than Fiction.  Tiki Ray joins us from Washington to help us battle between two legendary punk records. 

George: On one side we have Suffer, released on September 8, 1988 — this is its 30th anniversary — Suffer is Bad Religion’s third proper album and was the album that finally cemented what they would sound like, who they were as a band and what they stand for. It is filled with such amazing gems like “Land of Competition,” “A Thousand More Fools,” “You are the Government,” “How Much is Enough” and “Do What You Want.” These are legendary tracks and it was one of the most groundbreaking hardcore album from the South Californian scene. 

Hambone: It also has such a great album cover.

George: It also features the amazing artwork of Jerry Mahoney depicting a kid on fire wearing the crossbuster shirt. I will always remember staring at the photo in the liner notes showing the lyrics painted on a wall and wondering if that was a real wall somewhere. Keep in mind that this was 1998. A time when New Wave was waning and glam was all the rage. It was a time when the music world needed a swift kick in the ass and Suffer was it.

On the other side, we have Strange Than Fiction. Released in 1994, this was one of the greatest albums of the ’90s wave of punk rock. It sit perfectly between Dookie and Smash. It was an era when kids were clamoring for something raw, new and exciting and Stranger Than Fiction — the first record they made for Atlantic Records — was that album. It was dark and very different sonically than it’s predecessor, Recipe for Hate, which came out a year or so beforehand and spawned the hit “American Jesus.” Strange Than Fiction had memorable songs like “Infected,” the remake of “21st Century Digital Boy,” the title track, “Television” featuring Tim Armstrong, “Incomplete,” “Better off Dead” and “Handshake.” Every song on this album is perfect and helped end the argument that every Bad Religion song sounds the same.

Strange Than Fiction was also the last album with Mr. Brett. Brian Baker joined the band to tour for the album and became the lead guitar player on every album since. It was a huge time of change for the band and it also gave them their only gold record. Ray, your our guest, so you get to go first. Which album would you rather see in the Punk Rock Canon?

Tiki Ray: I’m old school, so I have to go with Suffer, 100 percent hands down. To be honest with you, I think it was the first album I heard from Bad Religion. Before I heard Suffer, the music I listened to was full-on hardcore punk rock, like Black Flag, the Dead Kennedys, Circle Jerks — just fast, aggressive music. The thing I loved about Bad Religion was that they were fast and they were aggressive, but they were also melodic. They actually sang on their songs and there is intelligence to their music. Those songs are just so catchy. This is really tough, too, because I’m a big fan of Stranger Than Fiction. I remember when that album came out and I love it. You’re right, it’s darker, but I still have to go with Suffer.

George: Here’s a quote from Fat Mike after he heard Suffer for the first time. “Those songs blew me away. I listened to the album four times in a row that same night. Suffer suddenly reminded me of how great punk rock could sound, and it pointed me in the direction that I wanted to go in with NOFX. It was like a reincarnation of the original LA punk sound. Back then, many bands were influenced by hardcore and metal, but Suffer brought back the melody to SoCal punk. The first song already, “You Are The Government,” is like a kick in the face. Exactly 26 fantastic minutes follow — a stroke of genius from start to finish.”

Hambone: I’ve been thinking a lot about this topic and to me, I look at a band like Bad Religion and see the Iron Maiden of punk rock. It’s interesting in a lot of ways because I almost look at everything up until and including Suffer almost like Paul Di’anno Iron Maiden. The bones were there, but they needed someone else to bring it out a little more. From Stranger Than Fiction on, Bad Religion were almost a different band. Even the song lengths were a little different. You are looking at 20 to 40 seconds longer songs on Stranger Than Fiction than you see on Suffer. Now they are doing two and a half, three minutes songs and are growing into traditional style of songwriting.

George: That’s obviously not taking in account their last album, True North, which was a return to form of their ’80s sound.

Hambone: Agreed, but we are talking about Stranger Than Fiction. I think the secret weapon for the success of that album was producer Andy Wallace. For those that don’t know, Wallace — with Rick Rubin — produced RUN DMC’s and Aerosmith’s collaboration “Walk This Way.” He also produced Prince, Springsteen, The Cult, Faith No More, Springsteen and White Zombie. For me, pound for pound, I have to go with Stranger Than Fiction because it really opened the doors for that melodic, openly-accepted punk rock sound. It bridged that gap between aggressive and melodic punk.

George: I’m in a tough spot, because Bad Religion is my favorite band in the whole world, and have been my favorite band since I first heard “American Jesus” on WSOU Pirate Radio when it premiered in 1993. While I think Recipe for Hate was the perfect Bad Religion album for me when I was a kid, it’s tough for me to put it in the canon when the production sounds so poor 25 years later. The volume is so low and the music is all over the place. I just can’t call it a great album from start to finish. For me, Suffer and Stranger Than Fiction, as well as No Control and Against the Grain, are perfect albums.

Tiki Ray: I completely agree. Here’s a question. At what point in Bad Religion’s career were they the biggest they ever were? What was they height of their popularity or are they still getting bigger?

Hambone: Either Stranger Than Fiction or the Gray Race.

George: They also had a big hit with “Sorrow” around the time of The Process of Belief. They still close the show with that. Also, they are still chugging along and regularly play decent size venues like Terminal 5 in New York.

Hambone: I have to agree with your thoughts on Recipe for Hate. I can’t listen to it, which sucks because I really love that record. It’s just hard to listen to because it sounds so bad.

George: That’s why any time I make a playlist, I typically include the live version of Recipe songs that are on 30 Years Live or Tested.

I’m stuck here. On on hand, Suffer is a great album and it’s the album that defined what Bad Religion is today. We can say that some of their earlier songs like “Along the Way” and “Fuck Armageddon” personified the band, but those songs were also generic punk tunes. Then they created their glam/new wave album, Into the Unknown, which I don’t know what they were thinking. Then they came back with Suffer — the greatest recovery album ever. My only complaint about Suffer is that all the songs run into each other.

Hambone: They do all run into each other. It’s almost like NoFX’s Decline with just a little bit of break between songs.

Tiki Ray: I think I have a reason why that is. Think about punk back in the ’80s when the circle pit was a big thing. I think a lot of the music was geared towards that. It was written for everyone to keep moving in a circle and just keep dancing and dancing. I don’t think there was a lot of room for diversity as the songs are concerned. That definitely died down by the mid-’90s.

Let’s talk about punk rock bands in general. A lot of the times a punk band gets together and can barely play their instruments, so all of their songs are the same drum beat and the same three or four chords. Over time, they hone their craft and learn how to play better. Younger bands also have that energy, angst and drive, and when bands get older many bands just don’t have that anymore. I see that in myself. I’m not angry and pissed off like I was in my 20s. The music I would write today would be more mellow and chill than it was when I was 22.

George: You also learn how to write and play better. I think that’s one of the reasons why they chose to re-record “21st Century Digital Boy.” That was a great song when it came out on Against the Grain, but Stranger Than Fiction gave it a platform to get in front of a bigger audience.

I need to dig up my interview with Jay Bentley where he talks about how horrible it was to make Stranger Than Fiction. I think at the time it was his least favorite album. I’m also pretty sure he recanted that statement after New America came out.

Hambone: That’s because he had to deal with Andy Wallace. He probably made them work. I’m guessing that’s why they didn’t enjoy making that album.

George: I think you’re forgetting that there was behind-the-scenes drama with Mr. Brett at the time, as well as divorces and other problems. But what we got in return was an excellent album.

Two quick stories. First, I am too young to have experienced Suffer when it came out. I think I would have been 11 and was probably listening to G’N’R and Def Leppard. When Stranger Than Fiction came out, I clearly remember failing my driver’s test. At the time, you had to have a car with a center-console emergency brake and none of my parent’s cars had one. So my dad asked the local ice cream man to let me use his ’76 Chevette to take the test because he was Greek. When I got to the DMV, the instructor got in the car and the vehicle immediately stalled. I couldn’t turn the engine over and I failed starting the car. When I got home, my girlfriend at the time dumped me because she couldn’t use me for rides. To make me feel better, my mom took me to Compact Disc World to buy Stranger Than Fiction on tape and I still have it to this day.

A few years later, Allison and I went to Atlantic Records to interview Brian Baker around the time of No Substance. Before we started, a bunch of execs walked into the room and presented Brian with a gold record for selling a half million copies of Stranger Than Fiction. He thanked them and looked over the framed plaque then laughed because he wasn’t actually on the album. I believe he asked me if he should mail it to Brett. After the interview I had him sign my Junkyard CD and he joked that he should have gotten a gold record for that album.

I have to pick a record, don’t I?

Hambone: You’ve stalling big time.

George: I’m going to go with Stranger Than Fiction.

Hambone: I’m going with Stranger Than Fiction, as well.

George: I’m going with it because it reminds me so much of my youth and it influenced me to play music and to think of punk rock as more than just three-chord rock. It’s also one of my favorite albums ever. Suffer is a great record and probably inspired way more people, but for our generation it was Stranger Than Fiction.

Ray, if you could choose between No Control or Against the Grain, which one would you pick?

Tiki Ray: No Control.

George: I think I would choose Against the Grain.

Tiki Ray: Against the Grain is probably Bad Religion’s best album, in my opinion. I think it’s the perfect mix of great songwriting, aggression, speed, harmonies and hooks. But my favorite is No Control because it’s the fastest Bad Religion album and I’m a speed freak. I love fast music. If someone came to me and had never heard Bad Religion before and wanted a place to start, I would say Against the Grain.

George: I think Stranger Than Fiction is a safe starting point, too. No Control is so good and has excellent songs, but it’s still very much like Suffer where all the songs sound similar. I think the songs on No Control are catchier and it has “Billy,” which is one of the best Bad Religion songs ever.

Tiki Ray: What’s your opinion of Generator?

George: Generator is weird. I tried really hard to like it, but find it challenging. It’s moodier than Stranger Than Fiction, and there’s really dark, somber songs on it like “Two Babies in the Dark” and “Generator.” It’s just a really melancholy record.

Hambone: It’s a very morose album.

George: I don’t hate it, but I find it forgettable. I mean there are some good songs on the album — “Fertile Crescent” and “Heaven is Falling” are on there. Hell, “Atomic Garden” had a video on MTV.

Hambone: “Atomic Garden” is one of those songs where they are just saying, “we still know how to play fun punk songs, we’re just not going to for the entire rest of the album.” That’s the standout track. There are some albums by Bad Religion where you have one or two songs that are in alignment with the overall true Bad Religion sound and the rest go to a different place.

George: Even “Atomic Garden” is a song that is almost deconstructed. It sounds as if they are playing the song inside out. It could just be nonsense playing, but that song falls apart at the end on purpose.

Hambone: It’s probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

George: “Generator” is one of those songs that you wish a band wouldn’t play live, but they always do, much like “All-o-gistics” or “Van” by the Descendents.

Hambone: If you are you going to play those goofy songs, please don’t. You have enough good songs that you don’t need to play crap.

George: Now, now. “Generator” isn’t a goofy song. I just think it’s boring, but they play it all the time. And then they play the slower version live, which just draws out the suffering.

Hambone: Just because you play something all the time, doesn’t mean that it’s going to get over.

George: There are songs on No Substance that I like significantly more than Generator. If we are talking about the worst Bad Religion album than we are probably talking about New America. I revisited it recently and it just doesn’t work. It is such a hodgepodge of styles. That said, “Whisper in Time” is such a great emo song.

Hambone: What’s funny about Bad Religion, is that they’ve shifted so much stylistically, it’s tough to ask Alexa to play a mix of their stuff. She just can’t make a good Bad Religion playlist.

George: I disagree. I was once asked what band I could shuffle and listen to no matter what mood I’m in and the only one I can answer with honestly was Bad Religion. Yes, there are clunkers that you can skip, like “I Love My Computer,” but overall, they have a phenomenal catalog. Even their new stuff is brilliant, like “Epiphany,” “Broken,” “Dearly Beloved” and “Only Rain.” And from Stranger Than Fiction to today, their musicianship has grown by leaps and bounds. They write these amazing compositions that can hardly be called punk. It’s just incredible.

Hambone: Jay Bentley is awesome and Brian Baker is a fucking ringer.

George: Technically, I think Brian Baker is a classically trained musician. Greg Graffin also has a perfect voice for rock and roll in that he’s not too gruff, but not too sing songy either.

Hambone: I wish everyone could see the smile on your face when you talk about Bad Religion.

George: You can dig up footage of me on West Orange’s local access TV station talking about how Bad Religion’s “Along the Way” was my favorite song in 1994 and I stand by that today.

Listen to the full episode of Mai Tai Happy Hour #84 featuring Suffer vs. Stranger Than Fiction.