Punk Rock Canon #7: Agent Orange “Living in Darkness”

Welcome to the Punk Rock Canon, a monthly feature on Mai Tai Happy Hour where Hambone, a guest host and I sit down and argue over whether a particular punk rock album should be inducted into the pantheon of rock and roll. Sometimes we discuss one album and occasionally we pit two albums by one band against each other. Regardless, the final choice is yours. Everyone can vote for which album goes into the Punk Rock Canon by visiting the survey on my Facebook page. It typically runs for one week and is open to everyone. 

George: Let’s talk about Agent Orange’s first record, Living in Darkness, and argue over whether it deserves to be entered into the Punk Rock Canon. The first time I heard about Agent Orange was in my junior year of high school. I had just received my first CD player for my sixteenth birthday and I was looking to buy some CDs on the cheap. A kid at school named Justin was selling CDs for $5 a pop that fell off the back of a truck. I’m not sure whether they were promos or stolen, but he was hellbent on selling me this Agent Orange CD that was covered in blood. I guess it was a special edition version of “Bloodstains” that came with a blood packet that burst. Mostly due to the congealed fake blood, I thought they were a death metal band and passed. Instead, I bought his Old Skull CD. To this day, I’m still not sure if I made the right decision.

Joining us today is hardcore punk aficionado Chris Buehler, who specifically chose this album for us to discuss today. Chris, why is Living in Darkness one of your favorite albums and why does it deserve to be in the Punk Rock Canon?

Chris Buehler: Agent Orange, outside of Rancid, was the first punk band that I liked on my own or that you didn’t force on me. I knew about Green Day and Rancid from SNL, but I got into Agent Orange in 1999 after playing one of the Tony Hawk Pro-Skater games or Skate 3. “Bloodstains” was the first song I heard and I loved the whole surf/punk vibe. They were hardcore but they were also really catchy. I can’t even describe the sound.

George: Living in Darkness came out in 1981 on Posh Boy Records, which is known for also putting out the first Social Distortion record, Mainliner. Agent Orange is known for combining punk rock and surf, but I think that’s more because they covered “Miserlou.”

Hambone: I love Agent Orange and I’m stoked that we are talking about a band that you took me to see for the first time last year. It was one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Agent Orange for me is tricky because I first heard them, like everyone else, in Tony Hawk and on old punk rock comps. The first album I got from them was the Blood Stained Hitz. I went back to the Living in Darkness record and it was almost like a different band, because everything is played at half speed compared to the re-recorded version on the hits. Especially after seeing the band live, I know that that’s what the band really sounds like.

For a band that incorporated surf into punk rock, I think they did it in a way where it wasn’t heavy handed and it was a true part of their sound. The punk was almost an extension of their sound versus them trying to slap that surf sound onto a shitty punk rock band.

George: We should take a second to note that the band was originally formed by Steve Soto, who sadly died last week, right after we saw him play with the Adolescents at the Brighton Bar.

Hambone: They did two more shows after we saw them on that Friday night.

Kursse: George is the reaper of rock.

George: I had no idea he died until someone commented on the video I recorded for Facebook.

Hambone: Steve Soto had his hand in a lot of those punk rock pies back in the day. It’s interesting because we saw Agent Orange a year or so ago and the only original member is the singer/guitar player. Then we saw Steve Soto a week ago, so we’ve seen most of the members of Agent Orange and Adolescents in two separate shows. It’s kind of like trying to see LA Guns these days or Ratt.

George: Steve Soto didn’t actually appear on Living in Darkness…

Chris Buehler: He did record “Bloodstains” in 1979. He was on that re-release that Hambone was talking about. That’s the first version of most of those songs that I heard, too. There’s two versions of “Bloodstains” on there, the first version from 1979, with Soto that I think is the better version of the song. It’s a little more raw, but it’s still polished. That’s something people need to realize. When that album came out in 1981, it sounded incredible. It was bombastic and it caught my attention.

George: I think it’s impossible not to hear Agent Orange’s influence on later bands like the Offspring. You hear that sound all over albums like Smash, especially when you listen to that middle-eastern surf riff on “Keep ’em Separated.” It’s pure Agent Orange. Then there are bands like the Turbo ACs that do a modern version of this type of music.

Hambone: I got into Agent Orange later in life. I had heard their hits, but never put two and two together. I remember when the Offspring came out, everyone thought they ripped that riff off of Murphy’s Law, but really, Murphy’s Law ripped that riff off of Agent Orange.

Kursse: I never really invested a lot into Agent Orange, and I don’t know why because I really like that surf/garage sound. I’m going to vote yes, because Chris loves it.

George: I don’t think I heard Agent Orange properly until Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2. They were a band that I didn’t actively seek out mostly because  I thought they were a death metal band. That said, I am voting against it going into the Canon. I like Agent Orange, I think they are great live and love songs like “Everything Turns Grey” and “Bloodstains” but I can’t recommend an album for the Punk Rock Canon that only has eight songs and three of them are covers. I’d rather recommend the reissue for the Canon that has a lot more songs and sounds much better. I think Agent Orange were influential to punk rock, but I don’t think this album is a masterpiece. 

Chris Buehler: I vote yes.

Hambone: I agree with George. If this conversation was about Blood Stain Hitz, I would vote that it should go into the Canon, but I vote no for Living in Darkness. Agent Orange’s influence is undeniable, but I think that Living in Darkness isn’t a good version of the band. Blood Stain Hitz has versions of the Living in Darkness songs recorded at the speed they were intended to be played and they are way more aggressive and punchier. Blood Stain Hitz is essentially re-recorded versions of the Living in Darkness songs with additional b-sides and extra covers.

Chris Buehler: I might have gone that route as well, but that’s a re-recording.

George: Chris makes a great point. The word re-recording is a no-no word in rock and roll. When you think of re-recordings, you think of Ozzy Osbourne re-recording whole albums to avoid paying money to the band members that originally recorded those songs.

Hambone: Blood Stain Hitz is the better record because when you blend the additional songs with the old ones it becomes a record that I can listen to front to back with no hesitation. Whereas, Living in Darkness is a little bit of a slog, even at 19 minutes.

George: What are you thoughts on FEAR: The Record and the re-recorded version that just came out?

Hambone: The new one is garbage. The original record was awesome. Soup to nuts, that was a great punk rock record. I’m not saying that Living in Darkness isn’t a great punk rock record, I just don’t think it’s a complete punk rock record. It doesn’t sound like what the band really sound like. Fear, on the other hand, recorded the album again four decades later so they can fuck everyone out of their royalties. I think Agent Orange just called a mulligan and would probably prefer Blood Stain Hitz be put in the time capsule over Living in Darkness.

George: This is an interesting conversation and I’m going to blow your minds right now. The version of “Just Look Around” that I used for Chris’ intro music is actually the re-recorded version that was released a few years back on a Sick of it All hits record. Boom! I think that was done because they didn’t own the masters.

Chris Buehler: I think they also realized that they have a ton of fans that couldn’t access or buy those older records on vinyl. The prices on those older records were out of control and no one buys CDs.

George: I think the production on any record before Scratch the Surface was horrible. They had that tin-can sound from the early ’90s. Just Look Around sounds awful.

Chris Buehler: I think those records are untouchable and you should shut your mouth. 

George: Next time you come, we need to do a Sick of it All versus episode.

Click here to listen to the full podcast discussing whether Living in Darkness should be in the Punk Rock Canon.

The discussion above was edited from the original transcriptions for readability.